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Michelle Wolf has some tough words for the White House Correspondents’ Association.
The comedian — whose 2018 set at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner the journalistic group famously disavowed — is friends and former “Late Night With Seth Meyers” writers’ room colleagues with Amber Ruffin. This year, the Correspondents’ Association dropped Ruffin as the headliner for its April 26 dinner pre-emptively, stating that no comedian would perform in order “to ensure the focus is not on the politics of division.” The move was taken as a sign of the pressure that comedians and professional organizations face under an emboldened second-term President Donald Trump.
Wolf, who currently lives in Barcelona, plans to release a 15-minute follow-up to her 2018 set on the comedy platform PunchUp on April 24; on that platform, she also hosts a weekly podcast, “Thought Box,” in which she performs live comedy across Europe. On the new follow-up, entitled “Dinner Time,” Wolf promises to share her uncensored thoughts on what happened in 2018, “not constrained by Daddy Netflix,” she says. Among them are her belief that, ultimately, the press are not protecting Trump but themselves, entwined as they are, she says, in an alliance with him for drama — and the ratings that drama fuel.
Via Zoom, Wolf spoke to Variety about Ruffin, her own 2018 WHCD experience, comedy on the road in Europe, and her tips for those considering the expat life.
Did you follow the story of Amber Ruffin’s hiring and firing?
I love Amber. I used to work with her on “Seth,” and we’re friends to this day. I thought that was a very interesting choice for the Correspondents’ Association in the first place, because obviously, they knew Trump was president. And I’m not at all surprised that they dropped her, because they want to keep their access. They don’t want to make Trump mad.
I think Amber would have said some really funny and true things. But — this has been my experience with the Correspondents’ Association — they maybe were also worried about the truth that might be told about them, and the failures of current journalism, which are huge and awful for society. It feels like everything’s entertainment now; nothing’s just some guy explaining what happened. It’s CNN being like, “You have to watch us — we’re bleeding ad money.”
Do you think that was why you received so much blowback — including from the White House Correspondents’ Association — in 2018? Because you were direct about the failures of journalism?
I think they made the joke about [Sarah Huckabee Sanders] having a smoky eye the center of the controversy was so that it distracted people from what I really said. What I really said is that they criticize Trump, but they’re all profiting off of him, and they’re all in this together.
There was a moment at the dinner where Jeff Zucker saw Kellyanne Conway from a significant distance, across the room, and they went “Jeff!” “Kelly!,” and they embraced each other. I’m watching this all happen. This was the point where Kellyanne Conway would be on CNN almost every day, giving fiery responses and fighting with every host and every panelist. And in this moment, I knew: “This is theater.” She’s the villain of the moment, and Jeff loves her because she pulls in ratings.
They didn’t stand behind you; they pre-emptively fired Ruffin. From your perspective, why do they hire comedians at all, if they’re not interested in a comedian speaking truth?
This pre-dates when Stephen Colbert did it [in character], but it [used to be] light jabs here and there. Everyone was rather polite about it, but we’re living in not-polite times. To go and just give light jabs isn’t of the moment. If you don’t want people to say things that are mean but true — which is what people laugh at the most — don’t have a comedian. They’re never going to say they don’t actually want a comic; they don’t want someone to tell the truth about them, but it would be nice if they admitted it.
Have you reached out to Ruffin since her firing?
I messaged with her; we had a nice little exchange. Amber is amazing. She would have done a great job. I hope she’s still planning on doing the jokes she would have done somewhere else.
Your move to Barcelona happened during the pandemic — and I believe you’ve said that it wasn’t a political choice.
It wasn’t political at all, to be honest. I came here for a short while, and then it turned into a longer while, and then it turned into, Can I do stand-up here? It’s been great for my stand-up because you get a lot of different people — different countries are just two hours away. It’s expanded my point-of-view.
Post-White House Correspondents’ Dinner, people may have viewed you as a political comedian first, but you cover all sorts of ground — and yet you still need to appeal to audiences in Spain or, on the road, across Europe. Has that been a big challenge?
I’ve been so pleasantly surprised with all the audiences. As someone who desperately struggles to learn Spanish, I am so impressed with people’s ability to not only speak English but to have such a well-rounded understanding of the culture to get the jokes.
When you’re deal with our politics — they’re so loud, and they affect everybody. So I think people are interested to hear my take on it. I start my set with a little bit of Trump stuff, but I really don’t want to talk about it that much; you just have to address it somewhat.
Do European audiences see the absurdity of American politics more clearly than we might in the U.S.?
Definitely. I also feel like people [in America] are taking it very, very personally. [Europeans] get to watch it almost like a show: They have that disconnect from it, and so they really get to see the absurdity of it, with the knowledge that there are things that are messed up in their country, too. For the most part, people know they’re not perfect.
Writing a new comedy set weekly feels like a unique challenge; I’m more accustomed to comedy podcasts in which people bring on their friends and just go around the horn.
I have given myself so much work to do! I’m not a fan of the rambling podcast. I know it’s a lot of people’s things, and I’m happy for you; I’m glad people are making money doing it. But if I’m going to do a podcast, I want to keep it as close to stand-up as possible. It’s like I’m writing a one-day-a-week late night show, a 40-minute monologue with a little bit of personal stuff thrown in there.
What advice would you give to people who are thinking of moving abroad?
My biggest thing is to not look for everything you would find in the States. In Spain, you’re going to have to go to three or four stores instead of one big store where you can find everything you want. But just immerse yourself in where you are, instead of missing America. It’s not going to have all of the things you like about America, but it’s going to have things that are better than they are in America. Everyone’s more relaxed here, and I can’t tell you how much better the produce is.
Do you ever consider moving back full-time to the States?
I’m not really sure about that. I have a kid, and I worry about the schools, guns, and — to be honest — the food. Touring in the States for any period of time, you really feel the difference in the food you’re eating, and it makes my body not feel as good. My baby’s much more accustomed to European food, and the quality of the products they use here, and the chemicals they don’t use here. Those are my main concerns I’d have to weigh — but RFK, Jr., is going to fix this!
Representatives for Jeff Zucker and the White House Correspondents’ Association did not respond to Variety’s requests for comment. This interview has been edited and condensed.
